ukclique > rec.cars.* > rec.cars.maintenance

TheChief (01.01.1970, 01:00)
Hi all

For those following the issues I have experienced with a low
mileage Focus Estate.....

Took the car to EvansHalshaw (Ford agent) in Hull for
diagnosisand have been told that the very rare noise on hill
starts is called "clutch whoop".

The good news is that they have Ford's authority to change the
clutch under warranty.

Will be interesting to see if this rectifies the problem.

Phil
TheChief (01.01.1970, 01:00)
MrCheerful <g.odonnell35> Wrote in message:
> On 08/09/2017 20:42, TheChief wrote:
> A full explanation is here, I hope a new clutch sorts it out
> permanently, from searching clutch whoop it seems a lot of focuses have it.
>


Thanks Mr C

I had a conversation with the garage technician when I took the
car in for diagnosis. I had not heard this whoop term before,
but from the way he was talking it isn't so unusual.
I was given the impression that if the problem turns out to the d
m flywheel when the gearbox is removed they will replace that
too.

Strangely he was talking about the one litre ecoboost engines
(mine's 1.5) having very slightly concave flywheels which sounds
weird.

Anyhow thanks again for the insight

Phil
TheChief (01.01.1970, 01:00)
Peter Hill <peter.aioe> Wrote in message:
> On 09-Sep-17 9:11 PM, TheChief wrote:
> Now we know the term "clutch whoop" a quick Google reveals it appears to
> be an almost exclusively Ford problem.


Hi Peter

Dead right. Looking through some previous Facebook posts it looks
like I have been lucky to get a replacement offered without
having to threaten court action.
Disappointingly there are stories of replacements failing in a
short time and the original issue returning.
This can't be a universal Focus issue or they wouldn't sell so
well and product recalls would abound. Just hope that whatever
they do fixes the problem "for good".

Phil
TheChief (01.01.1970, 01:00)
T i m <news> Wrote in message:
[..]
> vehicle to transport us and anything we need to move that will fit in
> the back. ;-)
> Cheers, T i m


Hi Tim
If I had been told "they all do that sir" by the garage I bought
the car from, I would have thought they were trying to right
royally fob me off.

The sound is that loud to be clearly heard above the engine.
Recorded by er-indoors on her phone while I drove.
But, it only occurs under serious load like steep hill start, so
not heard in test drive.

Of course I will only know after the reclutch whether it was the
right decision to have it changed, but at least I will know how
it has been treated.

If it recurs I might try to get the d m flywheel replaced as the
next most likely cause, then drive joints, wheel
bearings....

How much of the car can I get replaced in its remaining year of
warranty... Hhmmmmm.

Phil
MrCheerful (08.09.2017, 22:04)
On 08/09/2017 20:42, TheChief wrote:
[..]
> clutch under warranty.
> Will be interesting to see if this rectifies the problem.
> Phil


A full explanation is here, I hope a new clutch sorts it out
permanently, from searching clutch whoop it seems a lot of focuses have it.

Peter Hill (10.09.2017, 09:29)
On 09-Sep-17 9:11 PM, TheChief wrote:
[..]
> weird.
> Anyhow thanks again for the insight
> Phil


Now we know the term "clutch whoop" a quick Google reveals it appears to
be an almost exclusively Ford problem.
Fredxxx (10.09.2017, 16:05)
On 10/09/2017 10:27, TheChief wrote:
> Peter Hill <peter.aioe> Wrote in message:
> Hi Peter
> Dead right. Looking through some previous Facebook posts it looks
> like I have been lucky to get a replacement offered without
> having to threaten court action.
> Disappointingly there are stories of replacements failing in a
> short time and the original issue returning.
> This can't be a universal Focus issue or they wouldn't sell so
> well and product recalls would abound. Just hope that whatever
> they do fixes the problem "for good".


Given that changing a clutch on a Focus is not a 5 minute affair, I just
hope that have a modified mechanical arrangement so the problem stays away.
T i m (10.09.2017, 16:47)
On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 15:05:19 +0100, Fredxxx <fredxx> wrote:

<snip>

>Given that changing a clutch on a Focus is not a 5 minute affair, I just
>hope that have a modified mechanical arrangement so the problem stays away.


And if it doesn't, then what?

Personally ... if it was one of those 'they all do that sir' type
situations and the likelihood of a strip and replace <whatever> not
*guaranteed* to fix it, I might just live with it as part of the
character of the car (depending on how loud it was etc). ;-)

Assuming the OP took the car for a test drive and the sound has only
been noticed since, I'm guessing it isn't 'that' loud?

As I mentioned elsewhere, after having the clutch changed on the
Meriva I (and only me, till I pointed it out to others) noticed a
'different noise' when the clutch pedal was fully depressed. I *think*
(without going out to check) the noise has gone now ... ;-)

If it hasn't, it's masked by all the other little noises and rattles
that have come in over a few years of using it as a general purpose
vehicle to transport us and anything we need to move that will fit in
the back. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
T i m (12.09.2017, 12:59)
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:53:10 +0100 (GMT+01:00), TheChief
<x.phils.ps> wrote:

<snip>

>If I had been told "they all do that sir" by the garage I bought
> the car from, I would have thought they were trying to right
> royally fob me off.


Well, sure, if it wasn't true, but it seems that in this case there
may be some truth to it?
>The sound is that loud to be clearly heard above the engine.
> Recorded by er-indoors on her phone while I drove.


Ok. I could hear it also but can you hear it over the radio as well.
;-)

>But, it only occurs under serious load like steep hill start, so
> not heard in test drive.


So not a constant noise then.
>Of course I will only know after the reclutch whether it was the
> right decision to have it changed, but at least I will know how
> it has been treated.


True ... but, you then have a car where the clutch has been replaced
and who knows what other issues are then created by that process?

Any work I can't do myself is done by a mate that has run his own
garage, on his own for over 40 years. Because the Meriva clutch
replacement requires the subframe to be dropped it's more than one
person (without the right kit) can easily do on their own so he farmed
it out to a bigger / local garage he uses for tyres, MOT's and such
things.

When I got it back there were some marks on the top of one wing that
I'm pretty sure weren't there before, a cable tie about to fall into
the alternator and a small ring spanner actually hanging out of the
electric fan housing. Later on I discovered a 'klonk from underneath
that my mate found to be an engine steady bar that hadn't been fully
tightened.

The thing is the price was good, they did it fairly quickly and I
didn't want to make it more difficult for my mate by making a big
issue out of any of it (especially as he earnt nothing out of it
himself).

So I guess what I am saying is that you could go out of the frying pan
and into the fire and whilst you may be willing and able to persevere
getting it all sorted, do you want to risk all of that (for that
noise), especially *if* there aren't very good odds that it *will*
make a difference?
>If it recurs I might try to get the d m flywheel replaced as the
> next most likely cause, then drive joints, wheel
> bearings....


LOL ... ;-)
>How much of the car can I get replaced in its remaining year of
> warranty... Hhmmmmm.


Quite ... well, if you are willing to deal with any unwanted
consequences, 'as much of it as you can'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
MrCheerful (12.09.2017, 13:33)
On 12/09/2017 11:59, T i m wrote:
[..]
> Quite ... well, if you are willing to deal with any unwanted
> consequences, 'as much of it as you can'. ;-)
> Cheers, T i m


When asked to look at secondhand cars for other people (something I try
to avoid) I reject those that show any signs of 'amateur' or poor
quality repairs, ie if I can easily see that things have been apart it
is a no-no.
T i m (12.09.2017, 22:55)
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:33:58 +0100, MrCheerful
<g.odonnell35> wrote:

<snip>

>> True ... but, you then have a car where the clutch has been replaced
>> and who knows what other issues are then created by that process? <snip>

>When asked to look at secondhand cars for other people (something I try
>to avoid)


(Me too)

>I reject those that show any signs of 'amateur' or poor
>quality repairs, ie if I can easily see that things have been apart it
>is a no-no.


And missing / wrong bolts or washers.

I'd much prefer to take on an un-tampered vehicle (car or bike) that
just needs some TLC than have to find all the bodges someone else has
done.

I was helping a bit with his old Kawasaki the other day and the rear
brake drum arm was sticking on. We dropped the rear wheel out and
cleaned and lubed stuff but I noticed the sprocket side spacer didn't
seem to be the right diameter, not big enough to fit the seal? The
inner bearing was a sealed type so no real panic but my feeling were
that if the spacer was the wrong diameter, was it the right thickness?

If it was the correct spacer for that bike, had the wheels been
changed from stock?

If he buys a new seal and spacer, would it be the same as there now or
the right one?

Mind you, we have just been there with the number plate lights for
daughters 2004 Connect. I bought a pair of genuine lights (to fit the
new hd lamps), without looking at the van and was sent the wrong thing
(two individual lamps). On her van there is a black cowl that runs
over the both number plate lights and the lights have little windows
that slide and then pivot open to access the lamps. Googling about I
find we are not alone with the confusion and it seems that they were
only fitted for some of 2004 or to some models or somesuch? I've been
looking at lots of Connects of late and the only one I can remember
looking like hers is another 2004 model down our road. ;-)

But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
the time. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
Chris Whelan (13.09.2017, 09:41)
T i m wrote:

[...]

> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
> the time. ;-)


Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...

Chris
T i m (13.09.2017, 15:08)
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:41:01 +0100, Chris Whelan
<cawhelan> wrote:

>T i m wrote:
>[...]
>> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
>> the time. ;-)

>Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...

No, it was deffo Ford in my mind but it may be any / all of them over
the years?

I know my mate running the garage often has to reject parts delivered,
even though all the databases and parts look-ups say it must be part X
bit it turns out it's not (and not because it's been modified etc).

He used to routinely fax scans of front brake pads as the wrong ones
were often sent and a straight picture match up fixed most instances
prior delivery.

I'll have to ask him if any make stands out as being 'difficult' to
pin down now or has been in the past (as he would be the one removing,
ordering and fitting the replacements for the last 40 years). ;-)

Cheers, T i m
Graham J (14.09.2017, 09:42)
T i m wrote:
[..]
> pin down now or has been in the past (as he would be the one removing,
> ordering and fitting the replacements for the last 40 years). ;-)
> Cheers, T i m


A while ago I had a Vauxhall - when replacing brake parts the dealer
always said: "Bring the old parts in so we can see whether they are
Lockheed or Girling so we can order the correct replacements." So such
work was always a 2-day job since the replacements would not arrive
until the next day.

The independent I use for some work always orders both sets in such
circumstances and sends back the wrong ones. I guess the admin aggro
means that they can complete the job for the customer the same day -
also they probably have a credit account with their supplier so they
refuse to pay if the supplier makes any sort of mistake - which from
what I've heard is fairly common.
MrCheerful (14.09.2017, 09:49)
On 14/09/2017 08:42, Graham J wrote:
[..]
> also they probably have a credit account with their supplier so they
> refuse to pay if the supplier makes any sort of mistake - which from
> what I've heard is fairly common.


having two different makes of brakes is not uncommon, but French cars
will have a choice of 4 sizes PLUS several makes and several variations.

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