ukclique > railway

gordonT (23.09.2017, 12:45)
I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?
Graeme Wall (23.09.2017, 15:24)
On 23/09/2017 10:45, gordonT wrote:
> I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?


Southampton has a number.
spuorgelgoog (23.09.2017, 16:00)
On Saturday, 23 September 2017 10:45:40 UTC+1, gordonT wrote:
> I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains
> regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/
> attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?


As a *proportion* of services (rather than countable number) Dovey Junction / Machynlleth.

There will also be a fair number of passengers doglegging at the split to go from Pwllheli to Aberystwyth rather than routing straight through.

Owain
Joyce Whitchurch (23.09.2017, 16:40)
On Saturday, 23 September 2017 10:45:40 UTC+1, gordonT wrote:
> I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?


Ah, now this is the sort of question that used to get bishops very agitatedon their days off. Along with "quickest journey from random place A to random place B, without changing, and not on summer Saturdays".

Are you thinking of stations with portion working - where one train dividesto form two separate trains to two different destinations? As opposed to simple strengthening? If so, you're probably right to suggest somewhere on what I still think of as the Southern Region. Horsham perhaps, with half-hourly trains dividing for Southampton and Bognor.

In the north of Britain, Preston and Carstairs used to be very busy assembling and splitting portions. Nowadays most of the erstwhile portions have become independent mini-trains, flying past such humble places as Carstairs. But Preston still divides a handful of trains into portions for Barrow and Windermere. A quick look through Table 82 shows one up and three down trains combining or splitting there. There's also Nottingham, where most of the hourly Liverpool-Norwich trains attach or detach a unit. But that's strengthening rather than portion working.
Martin Coffee (23.09.2017, 17:20)
On 23/09/17 14:40, Joyce Whitchurch wrote:
> On Saturday, 23 September 2017 10:45:40 UTC+1, gordonT wrote:
>> I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?

> Ah, now this is the sort of question that used to get bishops very agitated on their days off. Along with "quickest journey from random place A to random place B, without changing, and not on summer Saturdays".
> Are you thinking of stations with portion working - where one train divides to form two separate trains to two different destinations? As opposed to simple strengthening? If so, you're probably right to suggest somewhere on what I still think of as the Southern Region. Horsham perhaps, with half-hourly trains dividing for Southampton and Bognor.
> In the north of Britain, Preston and Carstairs used to be very busy assembling and splitting portions. Nowadays most of the erstwhile portions have become independent mini-trains, flying past such humble places as Carstairs. But Preston still divides a handful of trains into portions for Barrow and Windermere. A quick look through Table 82 shows one up and three down trains combining or splitting there. There's also Nottingham, where most of the hourly Liverpool-Norwich trains attach or detach a unit. But that's strengthening rather than portion working.

Cardiff Central manages a number of random joins and splits in the
evenings on the Valley services, different every day. The most
complicated I've seen recently was when a 4 car unit split with the
front portion going to the depot. The following service split with the
front portion attaching to the rear unit of the previous service which I
travelled on so I've no idea what the remaining unit did. I hope you
all followed that!

The fly in the ointment is that the platform indicators and automatic
bilingual announcements are always wrong for these evening shenanigans
and you have to take great notice of the English only manual announcements.
gordonT (23.09.2017, 19:24)
On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 2:40:33 PM UTC+1, Joyce Whitchurch wrote:

> Are you thinking of stations with portion working - where one train divides >to form two separate trains to two different destinations? As opposed to >simple strengthening?


The former. (Hadn't actually thought of the latter possibility tbh).
gordonT (23.09.2017, 19:35)
> On 23/09/17 14:40, Joyce Whitchurch wrote: you're probably right to suggest somewhere on what I still think of as the Southern Region. Horsham perhaps, with half-hourly trains dividing for Southampton and Bognor.

Supplementary queston! Was this quintessential "Southern Region" practice deliberately shunned on other (former) regions (other than the odd exceptionsuch as Carstairs) because it was viewed as too much hassle or risky in reliability terms in the event of late running or sets failing to couple/uncouple? Or service patterns not sufficiently Southernlike? Or rolling stock not prone to such standardisation? Or something else?
Graeme Wall (23.09.2017, 19:47)
On 23/09/2017 17:35, gordonT wrote:
>> On 23/09/17 14:40, Joyce Whitchurch wrote:

> you're probably right to suggest somewhere on what I still think of as the Southern Region. Horsham perhaps, with half-hourly trains dividing for Southampton and Bognor.
> Supplementary queston! Was this quintessential "Southern Region" practice deliberately shunned on other (former) regions (other than the odd exception such as Carstairs) because it was viewed as too much hassle or risky in reliability terms in the event of late running or sets failing to couple/uncouple? Or service patterns not sufficiently Southernlike? Or rolling stock not prone to such standardisation? Or something else?


Don't know that it was deliberately shunned, it wasn't unknown
eleswhere. The GWR/WR went so far as to split trains while still on the
move! It was more prevalent on the Southern because of the general
higher density of traffic and the need to maximise the utilisation of
available paths into the London termini.
Anna Noyd-Dryver (23.09.2017, 19:51)
gordonT <tshanazt> wrote:
> you're probably right to suggest somewhere on what I still think of as
> the Southern Region. Horsham perhaps, with half-hourly trains dividing
> for Southampton and Bognor.
> Supplementary queston! Was this quintessential "Southern Region" practice
> deliberately shunned on other (former) regions (other than the odd
> exception such as Carstairs) because it was viewed as too much hassle or
> risky in reliability terms in the event of late running or sets failing
> to couple/uncouple? Or service patterns not sufficiently Southernlike? Or
> rolling stock not prone to such standardisation? Or something else?


I suspect that it's because for the services which split, Southern moved to
multiple unit stock so much earlier that other regions.

Anna Noyd-Dryver
damduck-egg (23.09.2017, 23:42)
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:24:37 -0700 (PDT), gordonT <tshanazt>
wrote:

>On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 2:40:33 PM UTC+1, Joyce Whitchurch wrote:
>> Are you thinking of stations with portion working - where one train divides >to form two separate trains to two different destinations? As opposed to >simple strengthening?

>The former. (Hadn't actually thought of the latter possibility tbh).


Salisbury does both, trains from and to destinations beyond there are
lengthened or shortened frequently. On some services the detached
unit goes onto a different destination such as Bristol, other times it
goes into sidings by the TMD to come out again on another service or
in for servicing as appropriate.
The presence of the TMD right alongside Salisbury station meant that
when it had the Franchise South West trains could add another set to
a London bound service if the loading was exceptional and a train from
Exeter was already well loaded.
Don't know if the present incumbent will keep this practice.

G.Harman
hounslow3 (24.09.2017, 02:51)
On 23.09.17 14:40, Joyce Whitchurch wrote:
> On Saturday, 23 September 2017 10:45:40 UTC+1, gordonT wrote:
>> I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?

> Ah, now this is the sort of question that used to get bishops very agitated on their days off. Along with "quickest journey from random place A to random place B, without changing, and not on summer Saturdays".
> Are you thinking of stations with portion working - where one train divides to form two separate trains to two different destinations? As opposed to simple strengthening? If so, you're probably right to suggest somewhere on what I still think of as the Southern Region. Horsham perhaps, with half-hourly trains dividing for Southampton and Bognor.
> In the north of Britain, Preston and Carstairs used to be very busy assembling and splitting portions. Nowadays most of the erstwhile portions have become independent mini-trains, flying past such humble places as Carstairs. But Preston still divides a handful of trains into portions for Barrow and Windermere. A quick look through Table 82 shows one up and three down trains combining or splitting there. There's also Nottingham, where most of the hourly Liverpool-Norwich trains attach or detach a unit. But that's strengthening rather than portion working.

Eastbourne and Crianlarich, respectively on the East Coastway and West
Highland Lines?
Martin Coffee (24.09.2017, 02:59)
On 23/09/17 21:42, damduck-egg wrote:
[..]
> a London bound service if the loading was exceptional and a train from
> Exeter was already well loaded.
> Don't know if the present incumbent will keep this practice.

I was on a Bristol to Waterloo service last year which was a single unit
leaving as far as Basingstoke where we attached to an Exeter portion and
an empty unit or two already in the station. I have a feeling we became
10 cars at that stage presumably because they formed a peak service when
returning from Waterloo.
Nobody (24.09.2017, 03:11)
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 02:45:37 -0700 (PDT), gordonT <tshanazt>
wrote:

>I'm thinking of stations like Hayward's Heath and Redhill where trains regularly divide and attach mid-journey (rather than any routine splitting/attaching at termini). Which station sees the most on a normal weekday?


In reverse, does that leave the Inverness to Thurso/Wick situation as
a unique operation, in not requiring a split or join to service two
branches?

As I understand it, nowadays in order to head to Wick from the south
(or to depart for points down the line), one rides through Georgemas
Jct for a trundle to Thurso, then takes an excursion back to Georgemas
before finally reaching Wick (or in reverse, heading up to Thurso
before going down the coast.)

That has to be special.
damduck-egg (24.09.2017, 03:27)
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 00:59:09 +0100, Martin Coffee
<martin.coffee.252153> wrote:

>I was on a Bristol to Waterloo service last year which was a single unit
>leaving as far as Basingstoke where we attached to an Exeter portion and
>an empty unit or two already in the station. I have a feeling we became
>10 cars at that stage presumably because they formed a peak service when
>returning from Waterloo.


I haven't personally seen 10 cars .
The Bristol and Exeter portions are usually 3 car 159 so presumably
the extra units were a pair of 2 car 158 units.

G .Harman
Recliner (24.09.2017, 03:42)
<damduck-egg> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 00:59:09 +0100, Martin Coffee
> <martin.coffee.252153> wrote:
> I haven't personally seen 10 cars .
> The Bristol and Exeter portions are usually 3 car 159 so presumably
> the extra units were a pair of 2 car 158 units.


I was at Salisbury today as a 10-car unit to Waterloo coupled up. I think
the consist has to be as you say.

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