ukclique > transport.* > transport.london

Roland Perry (19.07.2019, 08:41)
"Transport for London confirmed to the Guardian that 4G mobile
phone technology would go live in tunnels on most of the Jubilee
line from March 2020 and on other lines in the coming years."

<
stations-tube-passengers-to-get-4g-reception-from-next-year>

A spin-off from the 4g replacement for Airwave, it says. Which could
mean only EE customers will benefit. [Heigh ho, another reason for
getting a dual-SIM phone].
John Williamson (19.07.2019, 12:09)
On 19/07/2019 07:41, Roland Perry wrote:
MissRiaElaine (19.07.2019, 15:49)
On 19/07/2019 11:09, John Williamson wrote:
> On 19/07/2019 07:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>> A spin-off from the 4g replacement for Airwave, it says. Which could
>> mean only EE customers will benefit. [Heigh ho, another reason for
>> getting a dual-SIM phone].

> Or another reason not to go for EE. ;-)


Especially not at 15p for a text message, when I can send one for 2p on O2.
Recliner (19.07.2019, 16:52)
MissRiaElaine <thisaddressis> wrote:
> On 19/07/2019 11:09, John Williamson wrote:
> Especially not at 15p for a text message, when I can send one for 2p on O2.


I think, for a lot of people, WhatsApp has replaced testing. And on Virgin
(perhaps others, too?), WhatsApp data is free. And texts themselves are
also free on any monthly contract.
Recliner (19.07.2019, 17:02)
Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
> "Transport for London confirmed to the Guardian that 4G mobile
> phone technology would go live in tunnels on most of the Jubilee
> line from March 2020 and on other lines in the coming years."
> <
> stations-tube-passengers-to-get-4g-reception-from-next-year>
> A spin-off from the 4g replacement for Airwave, it says. Which could
> mean only EE customers will benefit. [Heigh ho, another reason for
> getting a dual-SIM phone].


I'm not clear how you work that out? The article says:

"While TfL is picking up the bill for initial trial on the Jubilee line
extension between Canning Town and Westminster, it will soon award a
contract to a private operator which will install 4G equipment within all
of London’s tube tunnels by the mid-2020s. Mobile phone networks will then
pay the private operator for access to the network, with the transport
authority receiving a cut of profits."

That implies that the kit will be installed by a third party, who then
charges mobile phone operators to use it, and shares the profits with TfL.
There's no suggestion that only one operator will have access. One way or
another, I'm sure all the major, and probably all, operators will provide
connectivity in the tunnels.
Roland Perry (19.07.2019, 17:05)
In message <qgslem$p3e$1>, at 14:52:06 on Fri, 19 Jul
2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:
>MissRiaElaine <thisaddressis> wrote:
>I think, for a lot of people, WhatsApp has replaced testing.


The ability to set up small (in effect) cc groups makes it a genuine
killer app.

Also now that bandwidth is so much more readily available it
effortlessly does what MMS never did manage to popularise.

For many users it has also replaced not just Skype, but voice calls in
general (especially International).
Recliner (19.07.2019, 17:16)
Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
> In message <qgslem$p3e>, at 14:52:06 on Fri, 19 Jul
> 2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:
> The ability to set up small (in effect) cc groups makes it a genuine
> killer app.


Yes, that seems to be the key feature. It also compresses so they transmit
quickly, using little data.

> Also now that bandwidth is so much more readily available it
> effortlessly does what MMS never did manage to popularise.
> For many users it has also replaced not just Skype, but voice calls in
> general (especially International).


Yes, much cheaper, or even effectively free.
Recliner (19.07.2019, 17:19)
Recliner <recliner.usenet> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
> Yes, that seems to be the key feature. It also compresses so they transmit
> quickly, using little data.


I meant to say, compresses *images*.
[..]
Roland Perry (19.07.2019, 22:20)
In message <qgsm2d$t3m$1>, at 15:02:37 on Fri, 19 Jul
2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
>I'm not clear how you work that out? The article says:
>"While TfL is picking up the bill for initial trial on the Jubilee line
>extension between Canning Town and Westminster, it will soon award a
>contract to a private operator which will install 4G equipment within all
>of London’s tube tunnels by the mid-2020s. Mobile phone networks will then
>pay the private operator for access to the network, with the transport
>authority receiving a cut of profits."


Just before that it says:

"The upgrade, which will ultimately require around 2,000km of
new cabling, is being installed in conjunction with a
much-delayed Home Office-mandated 4G telephone network for the
emergency services, saving the need to fit two different sets of
equipment."

(Although why a new installation is called an "upgrade", only the
sub-editors can say).

>That implies that the kit will be installed by a third party,


It's hardly likely to be done by TfL themselves. No budget for that kind
of thing, or something would have happened years ago.

>who then charges mobile phone operators to use it, and shares the
>profits with TfL. There's no suggestion that only one operator will
>have access.


"Although the UK’s four mobile phone networks are is still in
negotiations about accessing the new equipment in London's tube
tunnels, TfL expects that customer demand will ensure they all
provide services on the move."

Well, EE is going to, but are-is(sic, well it is the Grauniad) the other
three going to follow suit. Who will blink first over the cost.

>One way or another, I'm sure all the major, and probably all,


You expect there to perhaps be an "O2 - yes, Tesco - no" kind of
discrimination (which in another thread I think is what applies to the
wifi).

>operators will provide connectivity in the tunnels.


Let's wait and see what happens.
Recliner (19.07.2019, 22:39)
Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
[..]
> sub-editors can say).
> It's hardly likely to be done by TfL themselves. No budget for that kind
> of thing, or something would have happened years ago.


I meant that the equipment will be installed by a company other than the
networks or TfL.

> "Although the UK’s four mobile phone networks are is still in
> negotiations about accessing the new equipment in London's tube
> tunnels, TfL expects that customer demand will ensure they all
> provide services on the move."
> Well, EE is going to, but are-is(sic, well it is the Grauniad) the other
> three going to follow suit. Who will blink first over the cost.


Where does it say that EE is committed to providing access? I could see no
mention of it.

>> One way or another, I'm sure all the major, and probably all,

> You expect there to perhaps be an "O2 - yes, Tesco - no" kind of
> discrimination (which in another thread I think is what applies to the
> wifi).


I suppose it's possible that some cheapo virtual networks won't include it.

>> operators will provide connectivity in the tunnels.

> Let's wait and see what happens.


Indeed, and it's going to be a while.
MissRiaElaine (20.07.2019, 00:38)
On 19/07/2019 15:52, Recliner wrote:
> MissRiaElaine <thisaddressis> wrote:
> I think, for a lot of people, WhatsApp has replaced testing. And on Virgin
> (perhaps others, too?), WhatsApp data is free. And texts themselves are
> also free on any monthly contract.


Inclusive, not free. And for anyone on a low income, £10 a month is a
lot of money which could better be spent on other things, like food or
electricity. Which is why PAYG with no requirement to regularly top up
is essential.
Recliner (20.07.2019, 00:51)
MissRiaElaine <thisaddressis> wrote:
> On 19/07/2019 15:52, Recliner wrote:
> Inclusive, not free. And for anyone on a low income, £10 a month is a
> lot of money which could better be spent on other things, like food or
> electricity. Which is why PAYG with no requirement to regularly top up
> is essential.


But as I showed, SIM-only deals can be cheaper than £10pm. £7pm gets you a
perfectly usable deal, with more bundled minutes than most people could
use. People who can't afford food or electricity would be much better off
ditching their overpriced land lines (and most probably already have).
Roland Perry (20.07.2019, 09:20)
In message <qgt9qc$jpt$1>, at 20:39:40 on Fri, 19 Jul
2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
>> In message <qgsm2d$t3m$1>, at 15:02:37 on Fri, 19 Jul
>> 2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland> wrote:


>>> the kit will be installed by a third party,

>> It's hardly likely to be done by TfL themselves. No budget for that kind
>> of thing, or something would have happened years ago.

>I meant that the equipment will be installed by a company other than the
>networks or TfL.


Sounds like it'll be someone like Ericsson who are betting on getting
more than EE as a customer.

But we know networks already lease some of their infrastructure from
such organisations, so this is not a great surprise. Look on it more
like TfL providing a wayleave for their tunnels (rather than a tall
building renting out some roof-space).

They also share it (so at last one of the partners didn't install it
themselves). See RAN sharing:

<
Infrastructure-sharing.pdf>

>Where does it say that EE is committed to providing access? I could see no
>mention of it.


Why wouldn't they, when they've got a contract with the Home Office
which requires them to provide EE coverage for the emergency services.
Their business proposition for wider public coverage than other networks
is based very heavily on the extra infrastructure required for the
emergency services contract.
Recliner (20.07.2019, 09:44)
Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
> In message <qgt9qc$jpt>, at 20:39:40 on Fri, 19 Jul
> 2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:
> Sounds like it'll be someone like Ericsson who are betting on getting
> more than EE as a customer.


Yes

> But we know networks already lease some of their infrastructure from
> such organisations, so this is not a great surprise. Look on it more
> like TfL providing a wayleave for their tunnels (rather than a tall
> building renting out some roof-space).


Exactly, though financially, it looks like a profit-sharing arrangement.

> They also share it (so at last one of the partners didn't install it
> themselves). See RAN sharing:
> <
> Infrastructure-sharing.pdf>
> Why wouldn't they, when they've got a contract with the Home Office
> which requires them to provide EE coverage for the emergency services.
> Their business proposition for wider public coverage than other networks
> is based very heavily on the extra infrastructure required for the
> emergency services contract.


Ah, so that was just your guess?
Roland Perry (21.07.2019, 14:44)
In message <qgugp5$uno$1>, at 07:44:37 on Sat, 20 Jul
2019, Recliner <recliner.usenet> remarked:

>Ah, so that was just your guess?


You might need to guess about such things, but the rollout of the
airwave-replacement network is sufficiently well understood in other
quarters for me not to need to.

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