ukclique > railway

Recliner (07.03.2019, 03:17)
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>
Optimist (07.03.2019, 12:36)
On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 01:17:25 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.ng> wrote:

><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>


Can't they just use selective door opening in the interim?
Roland Perry (07.03.2019, 12:47)
In message <q5prf5$1eq$1>, at 01:17:25 on Thu, 7 Mar 2019,
Recliner <recliner.ng> remarked:
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>


Sauce for the goose there. Grayling doesn't believe anything (or example
the pending last May Monday-Meltdown) until he has a final letter signed
in blood on his desk. Why should TOCs operate to a different standard
while waiting for him to commit to things.
Roland Perry (07.03.2019, 12:49)
In message <g0t18elbq2ke61cs2h0cs3c3lpg67bg96a>, at 10:36:37 on
Thu, 7 Mar 2019, Optimist <curmudgeon> remarked:
>On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 01:17:25 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
><recliner.ng> wrote:
>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>

>Can't they just use selective door opening in the interim?


Perhaps the extra carriages will be obstructing pointwork beyond the end
of the platform.
Recliner (07.03.2019, 13:02)
Roland Perry <roland> wrote:
> In message <g0t18elbq2ke61cs2h0cs3c3lpg67bg96a>, at 10:36:37 on
> Thu, 7 Mar 2019, Optimist <curmudgeon> remarked:
> Perhaps the extra carriages will be obstructing pointwork beyond the end
> of the platform.


Yes, that's probably the reason.
jack (07.03.2019, 13:38)
On Thursday, 7 March 2019 10:59:28 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <g0t18elbq2ke61cs2h0cs3c3lpg67bg96a>, at 10:36:37 on
> Thu, 7 Mar 2019, Optimist <curmudgeon> remarked:
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 01:17:25 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> ><recliner.ng> wrote:


> >><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>


> >Can't they just use selective door opening in the interim?


> Perhaps the extra carriages will be obstructing pointwork
> beyond the end of the platform.


I'm pretty sure all the platforms at Leeds can easily handle six
coach trains, (they currently often handle 2 x 4 car units) so
is the plan to extend all of the terminal bays to handle 12
coach trains? That probably will need pointwork alterations
and possibly alterations to the Aire and canal viaducts too.
Roland Perry (07.03.2019, 13:51)
In message <2440083f-41b4-4fd9-87d7-2114ee67eddb>, at
03:38:32 on Thu, 7 Mar 2019, jack remarked:

>> >><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>
>> >Can't they just use selective door opening in the interim?

>> Perhaps the extra carriages will be obstructing pointwork
>> beyond the end of the platform.

>I'm pretty sure all the platforms at Leeds can easily handle six
>coach trains, (they currently often handle 2 x 4 car units)


Then we have a mystery, if the BBC report is to be taken at face value.

>so is the plan to extend all of the terminal bays to handle 12 coach
>trains? That probably will need pointwork alterations and possibly
>alterations to the Aire and canal viaducts too.


Were Northern were planning to run 2x6 in place of currently 2x4 rather
than 1x6 in place of 1x4? I agree that 1x6 replacing 2x4 would be
retrograde.
Certes (07.03.2019, 15:26)
On 07/03/2019 11:38, jack wrote:
> On Thursday, 7 March 2019 10:59:28 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
> I'm pretty sure all the platforms at Leeds can easily handle six
> coach trains, (they currently often handle 2 x 4 car units) so
> is the plan to extend all of the terminal bays to handle 12
> coach trains? That probably will need pointwork alterations
> and possibly alterations to the Aire and canal viaducts too.


Do they stack them (so the front train is for Ilkley or wherever,
and the rear train goes nowhere yet)? If they currently put two
three-coach trains in one platform, then two sixes may not fit.
Roland Perry (07.03.2019, 16:07)
In message <q5r66i$gn4$1>, at 13:26:41 on Thu, 7 Mar 2019,
Certes <none> remarked:
>Do they stack them (so the front train is for Ilkley or wherever,
>and the rear train goes nowhere yet)? If they currently put two
>three-coach trains in one platform, then two sixes may not fit.


From RTT this morning:

0833 0838 Carlisle 1 2H81 NT Terminates here
0837 0840 Ilkley 1 2V11 NT Terminates here

....
Starts here 1 2C18 NT Knaresborough 0859 0858
Starts here 1 1M53 NT Carlisle 0919 0926
BrianW (07.03.2019, 19:14)
On Thursday, 7 March 2019 13:26:44 UTC, Certes wrote:
> On 07/03/2019 11:38, jack wrote:
> Do they stack them (so the front train is for Ilkley or wherever,
> and the rear train goes nowhere yet)? If they currently put two
> three-coach trains in one platform, then two sixes may not fit.


Yes, they do, and my assumption is that that is why the six coach trains won't fit, because the current platforms aren't long enough to accommodate 6+6.
Bevan Price (07.03.2019, 19:45)
On 07/03/2019 14:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <q5r66i$gn4>, at 13:26:41 on Thu, 7 Mar 2019,
> Certes <none> remarked:
> From RTT this morning:
> 0833 0838½ Carlisle 1 2H81 NT Terminates here
> 0837 0840¾ Ilkley 1 2V11 NT Terminates here
> ...
> Starts here 1 2C18 NT Knaresborough 0859 0858¾
> Starts here 1 1M53 NT Carlisle 0919 0926½ You have missed a couple


Starts here 1 2P28 NT Bradford Forster Square 0842 0844
and:-
0852 0852¾ Knaresborough 1 2C17 NT Terminates here.

But yes, stacking two trains in the west end bays at Leeds is quite
common. Often a dmu (2, 3 or 4 coaches) plus an emu (currently 4
coaches). Trying to fit 2 x 6 coaches into some platforms would be a bit
tight - and there are some short turnround times, especially if one or
more trains are running a bit late.
Roland Perry (07.03.2019, 20:03)
In message <q5rlat$jqb$1>, at 17:45:01 on Thu, 7 Mar 2019,
Bevan Price <bevanprice666> remarked:
>On 07/03/2019 14:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>You have missed a couple
>Starts here 1 2P28 NT Bradford Forster Square 0842 0844
>and:-
>0852 0852 Knaresborough 1 2C17 NT Terminates here.


I didn't miss them, they the are in '...' part. What I was showing was
two consecutive arrivals/departures, which requires two trains in the
platform simultaneously.

>But yes, stacking two trains in the west end bays at Leeds is quite
>common. Often a dmu (2, 3 or 4 coaches) plus an emu (currently 4
>coaches). Trying to fit 2 x 6 coaches into some platforms would be a
>bit tight - and there are some short turnround times, especially if one
>or more trains are running a bit late.


Ta.
andym0dcd (07.03.2019, 20:04)
Platforms 1,2 and 3 are used with first in last out from the platforms.
Anything longer is likely to foul the pointwork at the west end of the station.

Not that long ago they were considering closing the line to Ilkley.

I think the long term solution is a "Leeds Crossrail".
The two track viaduct east of Leeds station would be a bottleneck.
Take the Airedale and Wharfedale services down into tunnels near Armley Junction, have some underground platforms at Leeds Station, a second underground station under the City Bus Station and then come back up and run east towards Neville Hill. Use a near spur to Scholes along the former Wetherby line for the reversals.

However, Leeds is outside the M25 so has no chance.

Andy
NY (07.03.2019, 20:53)
<andym0dcd> wrote in message
news:de36
[..]
> underground station under the City Bus Station and then come back up and
> run east towards Neville Hill. Use a near spur to Scholes along the former
> Wetherby line for the reversals.


It's a shame that the Wetherby lines closed (apparently the Leeds-Wetherby
line has the dishonour of being the very first of Beeching's proposed
closures that was actually enacted), otherwise Wetherby would have a good
service to Leeds. I can remember in the late 60s my parents taking me and my
sister (who was in a pushchair, which dates it to about 67/68) for a walk
along the trackbed at Thorner, and the delight of finding an old Ford
Prefect which someone had abandoned on the trackbed which was great to play
in ;-) Little things please little minds...

> However, Leeds is outside the M25 so has no chance.


I wonder whether the fact that Sky and Channel 4 have or are about to set up
regional HQs in Leeds will see any improvements to the transport outside the
West Yorkshire area. Currently a lot of services are only hourly, or else
some trains fail to run as advertised and start part-way through the
service.

My wife used to drive to Knaresborough (we were even considering moving
there) to get the train to Leeds. But she got fed up of busting a gut to
make it to the station in time for one early-morning train, only to find
that *yet again* it failed to run from Knaresborough, but started at the
later timetabled time from Harrogate instead, making her half an hour late
into work because she had to wait until the next train - the one that did
the whole York-Leeds journey rather than the intervening train that starts
from Knaresborough.

The usual excuses were crew shortage or signal failure. Once it was
"signalling error" and there were rumours that the train set out from
Harrogate where it was stabled overnight and was routed onto the wrong line,
and by the time that cockup was resolved too much time had been lost to get
it to Knaresborough in time for the return journey, so it killed time and
then started from Harrogate. Pathetic. Northern deserve to have *big* fines
(which should be in the form of fare reductions, so the *passengers*
actually benefit) for what they have done to the service over the past year
or so.

The Sky/CH4 effect has had a nasty effect on house prices. We sold out house
near Malton and have struggled to buy a house nearer into Leeds because not
only have house prices gone up to silly levels, but also people are prepared
to offer way over the inflated asking price in order to secure the house -
we can't compete against that. Our house was too far away to reap the
exiled-Londoners effect on house prices. Intriguingly, the house where I was
born in Leeds came up for sale a little while ago. My parents can remember
it very well, and were appalled to see on Rightmove all the tasteless
changes that have been made in the intervening 55 years. I'm waiting until
the second house we lived in comes up for sale, because *I* can remember
that house so I could see the changes. But the woman who bought it from us
50 years ago still lives there so it will take a few years yet before the
nursing home or the grim reaper calls her away.
clausenjh (07.03.2019, 23:11)
On Thursday, March 7, 2019 at 1:17:27 AM UTC, Recliner wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47474956>


I'm surprised that the news hasn't spotted a similar problem on Greater Anglia. Platforms on the Hertford East line are just long enough for a pair of317s or 379s. The 720s have longer carriages so the longest option will befive cars. SDO is no good because a longer train will not fit in Hertford East. 27 of the 317s are supposed to be getting PRM mods but so far the first unit has come back.

John

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